Curse

reaper with no name · Aug 13, 2009, 08:20 AM // 08:20

Yep, you all knew it was coming.

As has been discussed to death (don't worry, though, the discussion continues to be rezzed, and even at 60% DP it is still very potent in battle), dervishes suck. One of the reasons they suck is because warriors, sins, rits (and in many cases even rangers) can all use scythes better than the dervish.

So, in order to give players an actual reason to play the dervish other than the tiny handful of decent builds they have (most of which have questionable advantages over the competition), I formally propose linking the number of enemies a scythe can hit to one's rank in mysticism.

In addition to it's current effects, mysticism will do the following:

At rank 0, 1 opponent can be hit by a scythe
At rank 5, 2 opponents can be hit by a scythe
At rank 10, 3 opponents can be hit by a scythe
At rank 15, 4 opponents can be hit by a scythe

The fact that some dervishes will be able to hit 4 opponents with a scythe should not significantly affect the game's balance (after all, that means a major or superior rune), and I feel that giving dervishes a reason to be played is far more important in terms of class and game balance than whatever effects hitting 4 opponents at once might have. After all, no one had a problem with the jump from 1 to 3 that NF introduced (I think

).

This won't affect the damage output of scythe warriors and scythe sins, but it will limit them to only hitting one opponent with the scythe. I feel that this is acceptable because, to be frank, these builds are destroying all purpose in the dervish as a primary profession. They need to be nerfed in some way, and limiting the number of targets they can hit seems like a fair way to do it.

Yes, I know that enchantment juggling should be brought back, and dervishes still won't technically be doing more damage and all that. But those sorts of changes require more than just minor tweaks, and they run the risk of upsetting the game balance. They're difficult, and quite possibly would require more effort than Anet is willing to spend fixing the dervish. This change is a simple one that would do nothing except make dervishes a viable choice of primary profession. Furthermore, it does not in any way inhibit further, more elaborate changes (such as the return of enchantment juggling and all that good stuff). The idea here, is that even if it isn't the most beautiful solution, a suboptimal solution is better than no solution at all.

So, c'mon, let's throw the dervish a freaking bone already. Please? He's been waiting very patiently, you know, and I think he deserves it.

EDIT: Ok, some people are missing the point. This thread is NOT for discussing the best ways to fix the dervish. That is this thread.This thread is about whether or not you think this particular suggestion is at least better than doing nothing.

It's not fill in the blank: The options are A) Yes, I think this is better than leaving the dervish useless, even if it's not my preferred solution, B) No, I'd rather the dervish remain forever useless than for this to be implemented, even if there were no other options, or C) No, because I don't believe dervishes are underpowered (let's leave the reasons out, please; those belong in the other thread I linked to above)

**Marty Silverblade** · Aug 13, 2009, 08:29 AM // 08:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

This won't affect the damage output of scythe warriors and scythe sins, but it will limit them to only hitting one opponent with the scythe.

What? You realise hitting things causes damage, right?

Anyway, I don't think this is an appropriate solution. Do something other with Mysticism. Wars (don't know about the others) run scythes perfectly well (not overpowered or gimmicky); there isn't a need to nerf scythes for other professions. Perhaps modify a bunch of Dervish skills to have bonus effects when Mysticism > 4 (like how certain skills fail with attributes lower than 4, except that this will give bigger bonuses to Dervs instead).

reaper with no name · Aug 13, 2009, 08:35 AM // 08:35

You're missing the whole point of this thread. This thread isn't about discussing the best way to fix the dervish; that's what the thread with the poll is for. This one is about whether or not you think this suggestion is at least better than the status quo. In other words, if it was either this or leaving dervishes as useless as they are currently, which would you prefer?

I'm hoping I can at least get a consensus that this is better than nothing, because the other thread showed me that everyone has vastly different ideas on the best way to fix the dervish. I'm hoping that everyone can at least agree that this is a good second or third choice.

Plus, it's easy to implement, so I think this suggestion is one of the more likely ones to work (certainly much more so than an entire rework of the mysticism line).

IronSheik · Aug 13, 2009, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Nope, restricting one weapon to that class only isn't what guildwars is to me, any class can use any weapon the same way any other class can, be it not as effectively. This eliminates anyone except the dervish using the scythe.

And in my vanqing derv builds..I don't even use mysticism, so unless you couple this with some awesome effect, nty.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 13, 2009, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Son, I am disappoint.

I enjoy playing Rt/D, and sometimes taking a scythe on my warrior or my assassin.

/notsigned

reaper with no name · Aug 13, 2009, 09:34 AM // 09:34

And this wouldn't stop you from enjoying it, any more than you currently stop me from enjoying the use of the scythe on my dervish. Heck, you could still do more single-target damage, too; I'd only be able to hit more targets.

Aljasha · Aug 13, 2009, 09:41 AM // 09:41

no, i would enhance their power of damaging opponents in a line or cone in front of them and ability to spread conditions (like blindness, weakness and burning).

reaper with no name · Aug 13, 2009, 09:47 AM // 09:47

...Once again:

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

You're missing the whole point of this thread. This thread isn't about discussing the best way to fix the dervish; that's what the thread with the poll is for. This one is about whether or not you think this suggestion is at least better than the status quo. In other words, if it was either this or leaving dervishes as useless as they are currently, which would you prefer?

Xsiriss · Aug 13, 2009, 09:49 AM // 09:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

And this wouldn't stop you from enjoying it, any more than you currently stop me from enjoying the use of the scythe on my dervish. Heck, you could still do more single-target damage, too; I'd only be able to hit more targets.

Seriously,are you for real? Of course it will limit the fun,the whole reason you use a scythe is for it's large damage capabilities which includes hitting multiple targets, sheesh. Other classes being able to use scythese does not limit your 'fun',and fun secondary prof combo's are what GW is about so if you don't like it,go play wow.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 13, 2009, 09:51 AM // 09:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

And this wouldn't stop you from enjoying it

It would drastically reduce the effectiveness of these builds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

any more than you currently stop me from enjoying the use of the scythe on my dervish

I don't interfere with your dervish. At all. You probably can't even tell if I'm using a scythe on my assassin or not, that's how little I stop you from enjoying your dervish.

Maybe you just suck at playing dervish?

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Heck, you could still do more single-target damage, too; I'd only be able to hit more targets.

Ah, but a scythe isn't about single-target damage, it's about three-target damage.

reaper with no name · Aug 13, 2009, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Seriously,are you for real? Of course it will limit the fun,the whole reason you use a scythe is for it's large damage capabilities which includes hitting multiple targets, sheesh. Other classes being able to use scythese does not limit your 'fun',and fun secondary prof combo's are what GW is about so if you don't like it,go play wow.

If it doesn't limit my fun, then how would this change limit yours? It wouldn't. Your own argument defeats itself, but whatever. Clearly, no one is understanding the purpose of the thread anyway.

Zahr Dalsk · Aug 13, 2009, 10:01 AM // 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

Clearly, no one is understanding the purpose of the thread anyway.

Oh, we understand well enough.

1 - You cannot play Dervish well.
2 - You see other classes doing scythe builds well.
3 - You want to take away their fun, out of spite.

You're like those people who're against 7-hero parties just because it's not their play style.

zwei2stein · Aug 13, 2009, 10:41 AM // 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

Oh, we understand well enough.

1 - You cannot play Dervish well.
2 - You see other classes doing scythe builds well.
3 - You want to take away their fun, out of spite.

You're like those people who're against 7-hero parties just because it's not their play style.

Nope.

Warriors are best hammer/axe/sword users.
Assassins are best dagger users
Rangers are best bow users.
Paragons are best spear users.

Dervish as scythe user is inferior to Warrior (WE + fake ias attack spam + +damage attack spam), Assassin (criticals, criticals, energy management to spam stuff), Ranger (can spam attack skills thanks to superior e-management) and even Paragon (gogo, GFTE/Scythe attack spam with tons of energy and criticals.).

He has dumb idea, but not dumb reasons. As it stands, dervishes need something else to stand apart from other classes expect hood and skirt.

TottWriter · Aug 13, 2009, 11:09 AM // 11:09

I can sort of see the theory behind this idea, but as has already been said, it's not a great one.

Agreed: Dervishes need A-Net's love.

Disagreed: The way to do this is to stop them becoming a viable second profession.

If you think about it, what you're suggesting just piles on the hate even more. There are better ways of helping out our skirted friends.

/notsigned

Xsiriss · Aug 13, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

If it doesn't limit my fun, then how would this change limit yours? It wouldn't. Your own argument defeats itself, but whatever. Clearly, no one is understanding the purpose of the thread anyway.

No,it doesn't and you clearly can't grasp the dervish class or the english language,of course it would limit the 'fun' (which by now means effectivesness) if you tie it's full potential to the dervish.All you want to do is be spiteful and prevent others from using a scythe to it's full capabilities and what makes it a unique style of weapon.

draxynnic · Aug 13, 2009, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronSheik

Nope, restricting one weapon to that class only isn't what guildwars is to me, any class can use any weapon the same way any other class can, be it not as effectively. This eliminates anyone except the dervish using the scythe.

This is pretty much my thought, coupled with the thought that multiple-target hits is what scythes are all about (there are scythe skills that require the chance to hit multiple targets to be worthwhile, for instance). At the harshest, I'd make scythes hit two targets for Dervish secondaries.

Another compromise position could be to tie it to Scythe Mastery, but put a breakpoint at 13.

Chieftain Heavyhand · Aug 13, 2009, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Then you would gimp your self if you don't want to put points into Mysticism because as the attribute bonus is now it is useless for damage dealers.

/signed

Only because as I stated above this would backfire on you like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

EinherjarMx · Aug 13, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

so, because the OP can't think of a way to buff the derv, he wants to have other classes crippled instead?

RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing /notsigned

Tenebrae · Aug 13, 2009, 04:33 PM // 16:33

No, i dont think thats the way. Any dagger user will get those 2% of double strikes per rank on that att . Dont think that fixing a weapon is the way to fix something about its main user.
/notsigned

Xyon the Greatest · Aug 13, 2009, 04:35 PM // 16:35

Guild wars is about variety, not one weapon sticking to one class, this would ruin scythes.